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--- combat_procedure [2024-03-16 23:53] – Note about initiative experiment poems
+++ combat_procedure [2024-12-22 15:53] (current) – external edit 127.0.0.1
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 ====== Combat Procedure ======
-:!: This page describes an initiative system most in line with what is called "A.D.D.I.C.T." or "quantum" initiative. However, as of late March 2024, we are setting out to try an alternative system based on things like OSRIC and Anthony Huso's initiative system. We will update this page as the experiment progresses. If we adapt a new system, we will preserve this current system on another page.
+In the AD&D world, a group's initiative system is a major determining factor in their style of play. There are different ways to interpret and make sense of the combat system described in the AD&D rulebooks, and this is ours. For more info on how we arrived here, see the [[#History]] section.
+===== Procedure =====
-This page provides a clear-cut combat procedure which will allow players to understand the state of the game and make meaningful decisions. If you haven't read it yet, check out [[Combat]] first.
+==== Phase 1: Opening ====
-This page is kept as brief as possible on explanatory content to keep it quick to use at the table. For more info, follow page links.
+Reaction, surprise, distance, morale.
-Important notes:
+==== Phase 2: Surprise ====
-  * **Actions resolving on the same segment:** ALWAYS both resolve! So for example, an attack on a spellcaster must hit the segment before the spell finishes in order to interrupt it.((Gary on EN World: "The physical attack must occur on the segment before a spell is cast to disrupt it--unless concentration is required to keep the spell going."))
+If there is surprise, declarations and resolutions occur as normal for each individual surprise segment.
-  * **[[Sweep attacks]]:** Remember that these are individual attack routines.
+==== Phase 3: Regular ====
-===== Action list =====
+  - DM notes monster and hireling actions.
+  - Players declare PC and henchman actions. Note that with this system, **declaring several types of actions A-H is possible, provided they do not conflict**. For example, moving and then discharging a magic device is permissible. In contrast, closing to melee and then attacking is illegal since the only way to close and attack in the same round is via a charge.
+  - Both sides roll d6. **The face shown on the die indicates the segment where that side begins to act (so lower is better).**
+  - Actions are resolved. Actions cannot be changed at this point, but they can be canceled.
+    - Movement is resolved on a per segment basis. **1/10th [[MV]] per segment.**
+    - For weapons with **RoF greater than 1, subsequent shots come two segments after the previous.** (Excludes surprise segments.)
+    - In case of a charge, melee attacks **(and only melee attacks!)** are resolved in order of weapon length.
+    - On tied initiative, speed factor is checked as normal.
+    - Multiple attack routine advantage (including [[sweep attacks]]) is affected by the opponent's initiative. Routines before the disadvantaged side's attack(s) go on the advantaged side's initiative segment OR the segment before the disadvantaged side (whichever is earlier). Routines after the disadvantaged side go in the segment after the disadvantaged side's initiative segment.
-The following actions are referenced throughout this procedure. They are coded by letter as they appear on DMG 61. It's useful to gradually memorize which actions each letter matches up to because it will help you remember the order they are resolved in. If you're a DM, it will also give you a handy shorthand when noting down action declarations at the table.
+==== Phase 4: Reset ====
-  * P. [[Psionic combat]]. Occurs every segment.
+  - Characters who reached 0 or fewer HP on a previous round (who have not been stabilized) lose 1 HP.
-  * A. [[Avoiding|Avoid]] engagement (flee, slam door, use magic to escape, etc.) if possible. (See [[Avoiding]] for the types available.)
+  - If combat has been ended, play moves to either (1) pursuit rules, or (2) 1 turn post-combat rest. During post-combat rest, no exploration can take place, but bleeding can be staunched, spells can be cast, and prisoners tied up.
-  * B. [[Parley]].
+  - If combat has not been ended, move to phase 3. **Actions which were started on this round which did not complete (e.g. spell, movement, retrieving an item) continue into the next round unless canceled!**
-  * C. Await action by the other party.
-  * D. Discharge [[missiles]], use [[devices]], [[spellcasting|cast a spell]], or [[turning|turn undead]].
-  * E. Non-avoiding movement. Includes [[closing]] to striking range, [[charging]], and any other non-fleeing movement such as repositioning or retrieving an item from a container.
-  * F. Set weapons against a possible charge.
-  * G. Strike blows, to kill or [[subdual|subdue]].
-  * H. [[Unarmed combat|Grapple or hold]].
-===== Phase 1: Reaction check =====
+===== Q & A =====
-  - If the DM has notes indicating how the encountered party will react to such an encounter, those are used and no roll is made. Go to the next phase.
+  * What happened to melee vs caster ignoring initiative and instead comparing weapon speed vs spellcasting segments?
-  - Otherwise, DM checks [[reaction]] for the opposing party.((DMG 63.))((If the opposing party's alignment is unknown to the players (such as in the case of a castle's ruler or an NPC party, the DM should roll this privately. Otherwise, this can often be rolled publicly. This is up to DM style though. The DM might prefer rolling these publicly if they want to avoid saying something like, "... and they get +30% because they know there's a dragon ally in the next room, but your characters don't know that."))
+    * I'm not sure if/how that fits into this system. For now, it is gone.
+  * What happened to caster vs caster ignoring initiative and instead comparing spellcasting segments vs spellcasting segments?
+    * I'm not sure if/how that fits into this system. For now, it is gone.
+  * Does this mean that I will move less than my full movement distance if my side starts on segment 2 or later?
+    * Yes, if movement starts this round. If you were already moving to a declared destination on a previous round, you will continue that movement on segment 1, even if your party's initiative die says 2-6.
+  * What happens if I charge but I don't make it to my target point?
+    * If you have remaining charge distance left, the charge will continue on segment 1 of the next round. However, if you have expended all of your charge distance at any point, the charge stops. (Note that this differs from how I hand-waived it on our Wednesday trial, where I just let the charge keep going.)
+  * Isn't ranged fire and turning heavily nerfed now that it doesn't automatically beat charges?
+    * Perhaps, though this is how many AD&D groups do charges. I'm inclined to try it this way because I want to absolutely minimize the "quantum" aspects of initiative as we try this system.
+  * Isn't it weird that with multiple attack routines, the advantaged side's later attacks are effectively slower (come on a later segment) if the disadvantaged side has a worse initiative?
+    * Yes, that does seem weird. Though I haven't produced a better solution yet which still ensures multiple attack routines work they way they are supposed to in the rules (before and after). Perhaps it's not weird though, perhaps the advantaged side's latter attacks are enabled by the disadvantaged side getting close for their attack?
+  * What happens with reaction modifier for ranged fire?
+    * It means action is taken on an earlier or later segment, as early as "segment 0".
+  *Is there a problem where spellcasters can avoid melee hits by going later, and therefore worse initiative is actually better in some cases?
+    * No, because being hit at all during a round before the spell finishes causes the spell to be lost. Even if actual casting hasn't started yet, all segments up to that point are used preparing to cast (e.g. retrieving components). This is the same reason that casters cannot move on a round that they want to cast a spell, until the spell is complete.
+  * What happens if a spell starts on segment 5 and it takes 7 segments to cast?
+    * Casting continues into the next round and the spell can complete on segment 2 of that following round.
+  * What happens if I finish a spell I started on the previous round? Am I allowed to cast a different spell this round?
+    * Yes. The rule is that you can only begin casting a single spell on a round. (Note that this is different than how I ruled on our trial run during the Wednesday session.)
-===== Phase 2: Surprise check =====
+===== Differences from ADDICT =====
-  - Determine which parties might be surprised. Detection of a party prior to this phase negates the possibility of surprise.((DMG 62: "Prior detection negates..."))
+There are two major changes you should be aware of, from which everything else stems:
-  - One player rolls for their party's [[surprise]], and the DM rolls for the other parties.((It's recommended that the DM rolls this publicly even if it reveals info to players that their characters may not have. Surprise is powerful, dangerous, and public rolls legitimize outcomes.))
-===== Phase 3: Distance check =====
+  - For initiative, **the face shown on your die is the segment on which your side begins to act.** This means lower is better.
+  - **You can do more varied declarations, as long as the rules don't prohibit it.** For example, you can move and then fire a wand. You could also parley while moving. You could even move after you finish casting a spell. But you could not close to striking distance and then melee, since moving and meleeing is only allowed via the charge. You could also not start casting two spells in the same round.
-  - If [[encounter distance]] is obvious to the DM, move to Phase 4.
+===== References =====
-  - Roll encounter distance.((Indoor: DMG 62. Outdoor: DMG ??.)) ((Remember there are different rolls for indoor (no surprise), indoor (surprise), and outdoor (varies by terrain and modified by surprise).))
-===== Phase 4: Opening morale check =====
+  * **Interesting quote here:** Close to striking (E): "All normal activity and bonuses are permitted when so doing. This action is typically taken when the opponent is over 1” distant but not a long distance away. Play goes to the next round after this, as melee is not possible, although **other activity can, of course, take place such as that detailed above.**"
+  * **Useful section to read:** Actions During Combat And Similar Time-Important Situations (DMG 71)
-  - According to the [[reaction]] check table, certain reaction rolls may provoke a morale check right off the bat.
+===== History =====
-  - Additionally, if the fight is so lopsided there is the question of overwhelming fear, a morale check should be made right off the bat. For example, if 5 light footmen are hired by a 1st level party to help clear out some goblins and an adult red dragon shows up, that's a great time for an automatic morale check.
-===== Phase 5: Surprise resolution =====
+Starting in late March 2024, after using  for ~1.5 years, we began trialing the system that became our current combat procedure.
-  - Perform phases 6 and 8 in order for the surprising party, one surprise segment at a time until each segment has been resolved.
+For the first ~1.5 years of our campaign, we used our [[ADDICT combat procedure]], an initiative system most in line with what is called “A.D.D.I.C.T.” or “quantum” initiative. However, in late March 2024, we are set out to try an alternative system based on things like (1) the way Gary and TSR conventions were reported to have played by the 1982 or earlier, (2) OSRIC style, (3) Anthony Huso's initiative system.
-==== Special notes ====
+We decided to trial this system for these reasons:
-The following are special cases for certain declarations made during surprise. The listed letter code corresponds to the letter code listed under the [[#action_list|action list]].
+  * Players interested in having more meaningful choices to make in combat, to add depth. DM interested in the cool interactions that could result.
+  * Dissatisfaction on both sides of the DM screen with certain results of the hard-line "you go then I go" initiative.
+  * With ADDICT/quantum initiative, it's hard (or impossible) to tell what segment things happen on. Also, stuff like potions taking effect and scroll reading time and item retrieval are often inconsequential.
+  * One of this group's core tenants is exploring and improving at AD&D, and thereby making our game as enjoyable as possible. It seems right to experiment with initiative.
-  * A: This is available even if the combatant is in melee, since the other party is surprised. Indoors, this means that [[pursuit]] rules are checked. Outdoors, this means the encounter is automatically avoided altogether.
+After using the system for some months, we ran a internal poll and found that all players who voted preferred or strongly preferred the new system. So we adopted it permanently.
-  * D, F, G, H: A full attack routine is possible in a single segment, as is setting weapons against charge. Combatants who have a [[reaction bonus]] may not be targetable. ''reaction_bonus >= surprise_segment'' means the combatant is not targetable.
-  * D: The spell begins to be cast, but will not resolve until after surprise if it takes more segments to cast than are available during surprise. ((It is possible to complete a spell and begin casting another during surprise if there are remaining surprise segments during which to begin casting.))
-  * E: Moving 1/10th of MV is possible.((Charge can be declared, which increases MV by 100% (indoors) or 33.33% (outdoors).))
-  * E: A combatant can begin a custom action such as switching weapons (1 segment), manipulating an item (variable), activating a device (variable), or readying an item from the inventory (2 segments or greater, depending on storage location). The action will not resolve until after surprise if it takes more segments to complete than are available during surprise.
-===== Phase 6: Action declarations =====
-  - DM privately notes action declarations for non-player combatants (includes hirelings, but not henchmen).
-  - DM rolls to determine first to declare based on roster order. (See [[Pre-Expedition Procedure]].)
-  - First player declares an action. For every full 6 seconds of real-life delay, the DM notes that the character will delay 1 segment.((Asking for clarification on the situation from the DM does not count against this timer, but talking to other players does.)) ((Remember that this never allows a combatant to delay casting a spell so as to not lose it from damage if struck in an early segment. Spells are always lost if the caster is hit during a round before they finish casting.)) Once an action is declared, it cannot be changed, but it can be canceled during action resolution.
-  * The DM should categorize each declaration into one of the actions in the action list at the top of this page.
-  * A combatant can choose to **prepare** one of these actions rather than take it. (See Action Resolution below for what effect this has.)
-  * Note that the only time a combatant must declare a precise target or area of effect is when casting a spell (D).
-===== Phase 7: Initiative check =====
-  - One player rolls for their party's [[initiative]] and the DM rolls for the other parties.
-  - Note down the numerals, as they may be needed to determine action resolution order later.
-  - If the dice show different numbers, the party rolling higher wins initiative.
-  - On ties, no side wins. See the action resolution phases for what happens then.
-===== Phase 8: Action resolution =====
-  - Psionic combat resolves at the top of every segment during this phase.
-  - If one side won initiative, resolve all of their actions in the order appearing in the action list at the top of the page, keeping in mind any special out-of-sequence cases as per the previous phase. After that, the losing side's actions are resolved in the same order.
-  - On tied initiative, reference the tie rules below to see what happens first.
-==== Preparing actions ====
-If a combatant has declared that they are preparing an action (e.g. "I shoot anything that comes around the corner"), that action "becomes prepared" at the time it would normally resolve. Then, it's triggered when the case defined by the player's declaration occurs. That means if initiative is lost, the chance to prepare is typically lost, since the enemies have already taken their actions.
-Regarding spellcasting, the start of spellcasting can be prepared, but the finish cannot. A player can say "my character begins casting if the orc moves", but can't say "my fireball goes off if the orc moves". **Remember that any damage taken on a round causes the spell to be lost, even if the start of casting was delayed!**
-==== Out-of-sequence cases ====
-These are special considerations that will need to be remembered during the round. These should be noted if they are relevant to the round, and kept in mind:
-  * A: When it is a side's turn to resolve their actions, if a [[morale check]] was triggered for a group of combatants, the DM calculates the morale check, declares the target number, and makes the roll. If the roll indicates a failure result, the group's declared actions are replaced with whatever [[avoiding]] method is indicated.<sup>TODO: More detail</sup>
-  * D, G: If the attacker has [[multiple attack routines]] (MAR), they may strike first even if their side lost initiative.((DMG: 62-63.)) Note that for spellcasting (D) vs melee (G), whether the spell or the first attack completes first depends solely on the G vs D rule below (where speed factor and/or the die face are checked). Also note that MAR does NOT mean that the creature with MAR automatically wins initiative! A losing attack (G) with MAR does NOT come before a winning flee (A), for example. And a losing attack (G) with MAR does not automatically beat a winning spellcast (D) -- the below rule on G vs D determines that instead.((Making MAR automatically win would make it impossible for a spellcaster to finish even a 1 segment spell vs a MAR fighter who hits, and initiative would not matter; this is undesirable.)) Multiple attacks purely allow the creature with multiple attacks to "slot in" an attack just before the enemy's first attack. It does not mean initiative is won entirely.
-  * D: [[Reaction modifier|A reaction modifier]] can cause a combatant to shoot first (or simultaneously with the enemy's turn) if ''reaction_mod + initative >= enemy_initiative''. On the flip side, it can also cause the combatant to shoot last even if their side won initiative if their reaction modifier is negative and ''reaction_mod + initiative < enemy_initiative''.
-  * D vs D: If two spellcasters are targeting each other, initiative is ignored in favor of casting time. If casting time is equal, then the caster with higher initiative finishes their spell first. Otherwise, the spells go off at the same time.
-  * E vs D: Missile fire and turning always beats charging because the "weapon length" of the missile or turn will be greater than any melee weapon.((The missile user may choose to fire their missiles at whatever point/range they desire during the charge.<sup>Ex</sup>)) ((Remember that the target of the turn must be able to see the holy symbol.))
-  * G vs D: If a spellcaster is targeted by a melee, the spell might go off after the attack even if the spellcaster won initiative. To determine this, compare casting time to either speed factor (if the weapon has one), or the caster's initiative die result (if the weapon has no speed factor). If the casting time is lower than the speed factor or the caster's initiative die, the spell goes off first. Otherwise, the spell goes off at the same time as the attack, or after.
-  * E: When a charge is resolved, the target and any other combatants within 1" can choose to expend an [[attack routine]] (if they have one remaining) on a [[retaliation attack]] against the charger(s). In this case, attack and damage resolution is performed in the order of [[weapon length]], with longer weapons attacking first and equal length weapons attacking simultaneously.
-==== Simultaneous resolution ====
-Any time an attack, spell, or whatever goes off at the same time as another action, all actions fully resolve. All spells are cast, all attack dice are rolled.
-==== Resolving ties ====
-During a round with tied initiative, actions are resolved in the order found in the action list at the top of this page, but with the following additional rules:
-=== Speed factor ===
-  * Melee weapons with speed factor attack in order of speed factor, low to high. This means that slower weapons may end up unused if their wielder is slain.((Attacks without speed factor, including monster attacks which use claws, teeth, slime, breath, and so on, always resolve on tie rounds.)) ((Speed factor is ignored during a charge; only weapon length is considered.))
-=== D vs D ===
-When one side is firing missiles or turning undead (D) and another side is casting a spell or using a device (D):
-  * Compare caster's side's initiative roll vs casting or device usage time to determine order of resolution (can be simultaneous). ((Note that this means a higher initiative roll is better. For example, rolling a 5 means that any spell taking 1-4 segments to cast could be completed before the spellcaster was attacked.))
-=== E vs D ===
-When charging (E) a combatant who declared missiles, spellcasting, device usage, or turning (D):
-  * **VS missiles:** Missiles attack first with their full [[rate of fire]] regardless of at what distance the charge began.
-  * **VS spell or device:** Time required to charge is compared to casting time segments or time to retrieve and use the device.((Remember that on charge, the charger moves 1/10th of their charge MV every segment, and the charger must end the segment at a distance equal to or less than their weapon length in order to attack.))
-  * **VS turning:** Turning resolves first.
-=== G vs D ===
-When attacking (G) a combatant who declared spellcasting or device usage (D): ((Spells are lost if the caster is hit, but device usage can still happen normally assuming the wielder is still alive.))
-  * **Weapon w/ speed factor:** ((Includes missile weapons.)) Compare speed factor vs casting time segments to determine order of resolution (can be simultaneous).
-  * **Weapon w/o speed factor:** Use same rules as D vs D, listed above.
-=== Multiple attack routines ===
-All of the attack routines being used on the target are resolved using the above rules.<sup>TODO: More detail</sup>
-===== Phase 9: Bleeding =====
-  - Any combatants who had [[negative hit points]] at the start of the round lose 1 hit point. Anyone who hits -10 dies.
-===== Phase 10: Recap =====
-  - The DM provides a narrative summary of the events of the round, making sure everyone understands the state of the battle.
-===== Phase 11: Reset or recovery =====
-  - If the combat has not been resolved, the procedure returns to Phase 6: Action declarations.
-  - If the combat has been resolved, one turn passes while the survivors recover. No travel or exploration can take place during this turn, but bleeding can be staunched, spells can be cast, prisoners can be tied up, and so on.

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